Veronica Wasek is a Shopify accounting pro and the Founder and CEO of VM Wasek. In this episode, Veronica shares with Gary how she successfully started her own business in the midst of the Great Recession, how she became an expert in QuickBooks, and how she uses her talents to help entrepreneurs succeed with their e-commerce ventures.
Veronica Wasek is a Shopify accounting pro and the Founder and CEO of VM Wasek. In this episode, Veronica shares with Gary how she successfully started her own business in the midst of the Great Recession, how she became an expert in QuickBooks, and how she uses her talents to help entrepreneurs succeed with their e-commerce ventures.
Live from Scaling New Heights, Veronica shares how she uses social media to market her business, her criteria for attracting premium clients, and the tech stack she requires all of her clients to use.
Listen now to learn how Veronica uses YouTube to attract her ideal client, and why niching down your business can bring you more success than think!
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Gary DeHart
Hi, I'm Gary DeHart. Welcome to another episode of accounting insiders. And today I am joined by Veronica Wasek, I got it right. Yes, I'm going to try 50 times and it's a super easy name. But so we're gonna talk about the art of competently saying no, and women winning premium clients. Yes, I love a lot of things about that. So we're gonna, we're gonna break that one. Pretty good before we do. Tell us about your business currently, actually, even a little bit, how'd you get into this business? And then tell us what you doing now? And then we'll talk about moving forward.
Veronica Wasek
Sure, absolutely. So I started my business in 2010, I really was a victim of the great recession. And I lost two jobs as the result of the economy and really felt like I really had nothing left to lose, but to start my own business and sort of floundered for the first six months really trying to find what I was going to do, because nobody understood, okay, you're a CPA, but you don't do taxes, or what do you do, and I couldn't explain. And I found QuickBooks, and became an expert in QuickBooks and have then grown my business now to having four employees that I work with. And into 2019. We changed our niche to ecommerce and then later to working with specifically with Shopify sellers, and has been very successful. So that's the service side of my business. And when my business struggled, around 2018, I was trying to to scale my business. So it struggled for a bit, I started to look at how can I bring more revenue into the business that's not just tied to having clients. And that's when the idea of doing online courses came up. And as a result of just being active in social media, having started my own Facebook group, the community in my Facebook group started asking for training. And as a result, I started doing online courses for them. And so that has also been successful. As a result, I started in a separate businesses where the online training,
Gary DeHart
okay, and so pardon the noise in the background. We are scaling new heights, and I guess the lightning, the lightning horns are going out back there. So so on. So 2010 desktop, I'm assuming Yeah. When did do you do? Or QBO? Desktop? Either? Or? Or do you focus on one now,
Veronica Wasek
we focused on QuickBooks Online, we made that decision in around 2015. To go strictly with QuickBooks Online. We have one client who is on QuickBooks Desktop still. Yeah. But we don't take any any desktop clients anymore.
Gary DeHart
Okay. And then on the what else? This actually a little bit more on that part of the business? What's in your tech stack? Do you say this? Is this? This is what I work with, when I work with other apps? Or is it more hate my clients who had this? We're gonna have to learn it? How do you how do you go about that? So
Veronica Wasek
interesting. You bring that up? Because that is part of saying that some of the ways in which I've said no. So I narrowed my niche quite significantly. So it's not just Shopify sellers. It's Shopify sellers who use QuickBooks Online and who also use a 2x as an integrator app. So that is the only app that we worked with, with our Shopify sellers. As far as doing integrations between Shopify and QuickBooks Online. We use we do use other business apps, accounts payable, payroll, but we don't take clients if they they're using other apps just because ecommerce is fairly complex. And the integrations can be quite complex.
Gary DeHart
Gotcha. Okay. And so the training side of the business, you started that when
about 2018 2019. When did you when were you one of our award winners? It's about that time I think that was the year that she wanted.
Veronica Wasek
Yes. I was the first apologist
Gary DeHart
apologist, not apologist, but
Veronica Wasek
yes, but and actually, that really helped me in it propelled me I think, in my confidence thing to to realizing that I have have a desire to educate our community and and then felt like that gave me the platform to to start doing that
Gary DeHart
right kind of some credibility and even though it was already there, but you know, here's something Little third party lady kinda knows what she's talking about the recognition in the community. Well, great, glad we could be part of that. So how does and I'm not trying to get into dollar details about the I don't care about that. But how does your time split between those two businesses? Because even just doing what we're doing here, right, it's not, you know, if we get 15 minutes out of this, it wasn't a 15 minute operation. So how does that how does your time how you find your time?
Veronica Wasek
Yeah, that's a great question. I've worked very hard to systematize the service side of the business, to the point that I now only spend 10% on client work in that business. I do spend time maybe 30%, doing sales and marketing, which is an area that I love, and then know that I would love it, but I do. And I spend the rest of my time either working on developing courses, taking care of my community, doing YouTube videos, or running the best my service business, mentoring my employees and helping them to succeed. Okay.
Gary DeHart
And the training business. Tell us a little bit more about that. Does it have a separate name?
Veronica Wasek
Yeah, so the My Online Academy is called Five and B Academy
Gary DeHart
like that fi ve number five,
Veronica Wasek
MS and Mother B, SM point. So five and B are 5 million boxes. Five MB Academy. So it's on five MB academy.com.
Gary DeHart
And I'm gonna find what when I go there, you'll see
Veronica Wasek
a collection of either free courses or paid courses. And most of my courses are geared toward virtual bookkeepers who already have bookkeeping training, but one to systematize their their business, they want to take advantage of proven systems that can help them be either more productive or more profitable.
Gary DeHart
Do you get into the tech stack of the system? Or is it more about you just need to make sure you find this type of product or that type of product? Or are you specifying,
Veronica Wasek
I talk about some of the apps that I that I like but I leave it up to them really to decide, right? Each. Everybody's business is different and their chips are different?
Gary DeHart
Sure. I met with Dino Deb duffer live video. So I did this with her yesterday, we recorded podcasts. And she said, Well, if I was a smaller firms, my question to her really was about him. Should the should the smaller firms be concerned? I mean, BDO, right. Do whatever you want to billion dollar business. And, and I can't remember how we got around to her. But basically was I asked the question was something along the lines of how do you? How does the firm go and find the apps? Right? And she said, Well, if it was me, I would find out what BDO was using, and start there. Because I assure you, it's been well vetted. Sherry and I that's actually probably one of the smartest things I've ever heard, right? I mean, I love going to a trade show. I love walking on the floor. And that's our customers out there. But BDO has done the legal work, they've done the technical due diligence, yeah, might not be a bad way to place to start. So the training, you said, there's free there's, there's paid, is the pay just one off courses, or do
I join a membership? Or no one off course? Yeah. And they're priced? What are the kind of the price points, they started about?
Veronica Wasek
$497, up to about $1,500.
Gary DeHart
Alright, so I'm not going there for 25 bucks.
Veronica Wasek
No, I mean, in the end, really, the impact is, I will say, Come measure it with what you pay for. Because I give a lot of free content on the way in my YouTube channel through the free courses and in my Facebook group. And I think there are people who don't, they don't buy any of my courses and still get a lot of impact from the things that that they learn that of course, there are people who they need more help, they need more training. And I look for example, my pay diagnostic review course, it will really pay for itself with the first diagnostic review that a bookkeeper does for a client.
Gary DeHart
Okay, so now you're a little advisory, they're talking about diagnostics, right? That's one thing that the trainers and people have been talking about for years, right? Gotta get an advisor you have to get into advisor seems like the uptakes not quite clear, like it should be to me. Because there, I know there's a need, just like from our personal business, I know there's a need, right? Because we get focused on what we do what we do best and that's why we need our accountants to help us kind of guide us and give us good guidance based on the information that's there. So I love that you're training people about that. That's it is so needed, it seems again from my seat and I don't know everything for everybody. So talk to me, it's So when you said, Our courses are going to be $500 or more, so you have to confidently say no. To $400 price point $100 price point $25 price point, because there's a lot of that out there. Yeah, I'm not sure they're all fine, good courses, we dabbled in it. So So what is the art of confidently saying no and winning premium clients? What does that mean to you?
Veronica Wasek
I think it's really about having clarity into first the types of clients that you will work with knowing who you will say yes to and who you will say no to, as well as the services that he will provide. And then even as I was talking about the pay diagnostic review, that you don't take on a project, unless you have full clarity into the scope of that project, and even knowing that you can deliver on on the promise that you give a client, when you say, DSL, I will take you on and clean up your books or get your books caught up to date or, you know, whatever it is that you will do for them.
Gary DeHart
Okay. And that, and how long have you been practicing that?
Veronica Wasek
You know, it's interesting, because I think it's been an accumulation of of making all of these changes, even niching down my business to assess in a very specific niche that I'm working with. And then realizing that those were all ways to say no. While I don't work with this type of specific client, not wanting to work with a client, who my team is excited to work with a client who is responsive to us, a client that will show up sometimes in a lot of them will say like, Hey, I need help, but yet, they're not showing on it. And so after I started to really not necessarily feeling like I will say that little no to someone but but having some criteria for who do we want to work with? What do we want to do? And what do we want to be really, really good at, then I realized that those were all ways of saying no. And that was leading to working with better quality clients, because I could deliver a much more valuable outcome to them.
Gary DeHart
Right. And quality isn't necessarily, these are the people that can pay me the most, I mean, somebody like the kinds of things you said, like, x is going to show out, you want to be responsive, they're going to help me help them versus just fill my bank account.
Veronica Wasek
Exactly. This, I think a lot of people think a premium client is somebody that was just charged a lot of money, because just because then they're just gonna pay it. But it's not about that it's really about working with with clients that we're excited to work with, who respect us, we respect them, who make it easy for us to work with them. Because sometimes we we, in our industry, we we sometimes will care more than the client cares. And we're trying to rescue them, but they're not letting us. And so a premium plan is one that is letting us rescue them who's who's working alongside with us to help them reach their goal.
Gary DeHart
Okay, so are there any? This is not a book, right? You don't have a budget? Not Yeah. Write the book. And you show why not? Right? Because I, the overall topic of it makes a lot of sense to me. When I hear confidently saying no, the worst, first thing that comes to my mind is I mean, you've got to come from a position of strength. Because the confidence really comes from that position of strength. And I can see a challenge for again, we're a small business, but I can see a challenge for a small bookkeeper or a small, professional practice in making that commitment, because it's hard, right? Because, you know, you don't fit, you're not our new model. So I've got to tell you, I don't want your 500 $800,000 a month. But I have to make that up. And so yeah, I mean, it takes a lot of confidence to be able to walk away from known from unknown entity, right? You know, absolutely revenue. Yeah. And how much of that is from well have a decent enough bank account where you can afford to do it? I mean, to me, that's one of the first thing that comes to mind, I'd afford to do it. It's kind of self limiting. But it's also reality still, there's bills to pay.
Veronica Wasek
Yes. And there is that reality and the way that I teach my students is that you may not be in a position to say no to everything. And I was in that position since I started and during the Great Recession, I mean, really, whenever we could get however, if you have clarity into who is an ideal client for you You which services do you want to provide what's a better niche for you, then you can slowly start to say no to the more obvious types of situations or clients that you don't need to be working with, while still bringing in perhaps some clients that are less than ideal, but maybe not so bad of a fit to where you're still leaving mental space, in space in your practice to bring in clients that are more better student, right? So it's a journey,
Gary DeHart
I think, it's not just like, one day recall, you're fired. Yeah, I'm done with all of you.
Veronica Wasek
But if we stay in that place of fear, like, I'll take anything for any kind of money, because I need it. And we don't have the clarity, we won't get there. So it could be, you know, two, three year journey. But as long as you know, where you're going,
Gary DeHart
you probably won't be as effective for any of your clients, right? Because you're not focused, you're kind of running from task to task, and not really taking the time, I think we were talking about earlier about the advisory side of what the business should be, right? Really helping the client. So it's not about you know, matching up receipts, it's, it needs to be a lot more than that. And so, is there do you have kind of a rule of thumb that, that you use in your business? Currently, I know, obviously, ecommerce. So is there another thing that you shared a couple, right? It's ecommerce have to be on a to x and Shopify? Yes. Okay. And so are there other other things that you look at? Things that the right term button markers, if you will?
Veronica Wasek
Yeah. So we actually, through the marketing that I that I do started resonating a lot with newer sellers who are growing very fast. And in the E commerce world, you can grow extremely fast, as opposed to say, a service based business because you have to scale a service based business, but an E commerce business, if you get an if you have the right team. And if the marketing works really well, we make good skill extremely fast, like within three months, have very high growth. And so we do very well with those kinds of sellers who are starting out and who need the books and after integration setup, and then sometimes they've tried on their own, and so we're having to undo their math. And, but there are some ecommerce sellers who they're doing, you know, 10 million plus in sales, or not the right team for them. Okay. But there are others who, you know, it's important to also be a part of saying no, is to build your network so that you can say no, but here's someone who can help you.
Gary DeHart
Here's a much better fit for you. Yes. So any other points that are that you'd like to share on that? Again, I think winning the premium clients, there's not just one premium client, right? That's up to me. No, it's, it's, it's what I define as a premium client to me that maybe, maybe the single most important thing is they're not going to call me on a Saturday. Right? I mean, whatever it is, to me, and, and again, as a practitioner, I would imagine, you've got to get in that mindset, and really take the time to define what the premium client really is, yes, may build out a persona setting. This is this is what we use our clients, this is what we take. Is that kind of the same thing. It's more of a maybe it's a two or three year process, maybe depending on your firm size, but how long it takes you to kind of really determine what your premium client is.
Veronica Wasek
I think once I figured out that ecommerce was too broad of a niche, and we narrowed it down to Shopify sellers, again, with very specific criteria even for that, that once I understood that work, even though it's a very narrow niche, it's been very profitable. That's really when I realized that okay, I just need to continue saying yes to that small number of clients and it has continued to work with anyone else.
Gary DeHart
Awesome. I'm happy for you. So 2010 2008 2010 like Okay, time for read to redefine myself. Yeah. 2008 teen ottime redefined again. Yeah, here we are. Between, right up to big news was a big spike, right? Yes. And then four years later, things sound like things are going extremely well. Yeah, do you? So you said 90% currently and on the training is really where you spend your time.
Veronica Wasek
Oh, maybe 40% Okay, because I'm still doing sales and marketing for my service business. Oh, yeah.
Gary DeHart
Okay. And is that? What does that look like? What is sales marketing for services
Veronica Wasek
this? I do YouTube videos. So I'm on YouTube. I have a YouTube channel called five minute bookkeeping. So the five NBA Academy, five minute bookkeeping
Gary DeHart
million bucks, which are 5 million bucks.
Veronica Wasek
There you go. So that's the bulk of the marketing that I do is YouTube videos. And then we repurpose that content. We do blog posts, we do social media posts. I'm also running my Facebook group, five minute bookkeeping community. But as far as marketing is, it all is all coming from YouTube.
Gary DeHart
Okay, anything on LinkedIn?
Veronica Wasek
I don't do LinkedIn. Shopify sellers are not on LinkedIn. That I know what the
Gary DeHart
right people, right, this is, as we're bringing clients are there so why bother? So of the social media ones is the one that stands out. So you say YouTube is number one like this, you got to be there? And then what about the other, like with Facebook is the is the secret sauce with Facebook, having a group and building the group out?
Veronica Wasek
I will say as far as for my online courses and having an effect or relationship with other bookkeepers? Absolutely. Yeah, either have your own course or participate, of course, have your own group or participate in other groups for bookkeepers and focus on giving value, not self promotion, because you probably get kicked out. So it's really about building relationships. And I would say, have a niche. Because if you have a niche, and then you let others know, that's what your niche is, they will remember that. If you just talk about I'm a bookkeeper for small business owners, nobody will remember it.
Gary DeHart
That's interesting. Okay. Anything else you want to throw out here? Before we wrap up?
Veronica Wasek
Like we said, I think saying no, is a journey is about like you said, finding that self confidence that it takes time to do that. It took me time to do that. And then realizing that we can say no, not necessarily in those words, but how we set up our businesses, our practices, the types of services that we do, and don't do the types of clients that we that we take on having a full scope of work before taking on big projects. And it really comes from having clarity into again, who you are, Who's your ideal client? What do you want to do ultimately, and and what's your, your superpower?
Gary DeHart
Right? That's fantastic. So there was one question that I like to ask I usually ask it first, but I forgot it because I didn't write it down. And so we'll close with it. It's a tough one. Okay. It's gonna be really a lot of brain power. Yet the news here might not be ready. Who is your favorite cartoon character?
Veronica Wasek
Oh, my God. I told you it's the hardest. I'm gonna date myself with
Gary DeHart
everybody stated themselves and it's really funny. Tweety Bird? Tweety Bird, actually, it's so funny out of probably in the past 10 days, I think I've asked as many people probably 10 people, and nine out of the 10 had been Looney Tunes characters.
Veronica Wasek
I think I fall in that age group.
Gary DeHart
So something about the age group, and which is it's funny. The one who did not say is a little bit younger. Bugs Bunny is mine. He's Oh, yeah. There was somebody did say Speedy Gonzales.
Veronica Wasek
Yeah, it's interesting, because I grew up in Chile. So we watched all the cartoons in Spanish, they had different names, then they sounded different. And
Gary DeHart
they have different menus. So I guess it wouldn't be bad spelling right now.
Veronica Wasek
I don't even remember their names anymore. But I actually realized recently that like, a lot of names start with the same letter Bugs Bunny and whatever. Other Mickey Mouse Minnie Mouse, yes. Oh, okay. And then realize,
Gary DeHart
okay, well, there you heard it here first if you moved to Chile, and you can watch your Looney Tunes with completely different characters. So Veronica, thank you so much for joining me today on podcast. Hopefully we can do this again soon. And let's certainly reach out to I'd love to have you reach out to us to see how we can just work together in the future on whatever it might be out there. Sounds great. Certainly good luck and good luck in the future which work. Thank you. Thank you.