Debra Kilsheimer is a Top 100 ProAdvisor Award Winner, and the owner of Behind the Scenes Financial Services. In this episode, Debra shares with Gary how she has leveraged the Top ProAdvisor award in her firm, as well as her strategy for maintaining a successful business.
Debra Kilsheimer is a Top 100 ProAdvisor Award Winner, and the owner of Behind the Scenes Financial Services. In this episode, Debra shares with Gary how she has leveraged the Top ProAdvisor award in her firm, as well as her strategy for maintaining a successful business.
Live from Scaling New Heights, Debra shares her secrets about how to run a successful firm, her process for selecting what new technology to implement, and how to foster a great client relationship.
Listen now to learn why Debra no longer charges her clients on a hourly basis, and why doing so is leaving money on the table!
Learn more about Debra and her firm: http://www.bsfsllc.com/About-Debbie.html
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Gary DeHart
Welcome to accounting insiders. I'm Gary De Hart, the publisher of insightful accountant. And today, I have Debra Kilsheimer, with me, Deborah, welcome.
Debra Kilsheimer
Thank you glad to be here.
Gary DeHart
Okay, we're going to be talking about it's your business you decide everything, which I love that because somebody's gonna make a decision. Right? And so, but before we dive in too far, what's your favorite cartoon character? It's really tricky question. I've thrown her off already.
Debra Kilsheimer
I don't watch cartoons.
Gary DeHart
Oh, you had to watch cartoons. At some point. You're like,
Debra Kilsheimer
I think Well, growing up I watched Yogi Bear booboo.
Gary DeHart
Oh, there we go.
Debra Kilsheimer
I actually have a little stuffed animal named booboo. I still have Yogi Bear and booboo.
Gary DeHart
So which one if you had to pick one or the Booba? Right? All right. Well, you're the first one that's gone. Hanna Barbera. Everybody else except one person has been Looney Tunes.
Debra Kilsheimer
Well, the Jetsons are good too. And that's also Hanna Barbera
Gary DeHart
Jetsons? Yes, so alright. So that's the hard question.
Debra Kilsheimer
Okay. Sure.
Gary DeHart
Now, it gets easier.
Debra Kilsheimer
Okay.
Gary DeHart
So your top 100 Pro advisor, multi year, how many years?
Debra Kilsheimer
Every year you've had it?
Gary DeHart
Okay, so eight. This is our ninth year of publication, which started at the next year. So eight and then I think we said back in 2015. Social Media Pro advisor. Yep. So how have those two things help you use them? And how are they impacted your practice?
Debra Kilsheimer
Well, the biggest, well, the biggest thing for that is, you know, it makes me very proud of what I've accomplished, like, wow, my, my peers have recognized me, this profession has recognized me. I don't think clients really care. Okay. You know, but it makes me feel good. You know, it's like, wow, you know, I'm pretty good at this job. You know, so that makes me happy. And then, of course, it's always fun. If you get around to client he says, Well, what do you know? And I said, Well, I'm on top 100.
Gary DeHart
Out of 100,000.
Debra Kilsheimer
Yeah, I was excited when I won top 10. I remember sitting in the front row in New Orleans. And I just couldn't believe it. I mean, I couldn't believe it. And I think what are their 250,000 Pro advisors. And I called my son up, and I said, You'll never guess on the top 10 Pro advisors. I'm better than 240 9990. That was up, but that actually is one of the highest honors I have ever gotten. So I'm very, very proud of that. Awesome. 10.
Gary DeHart
Well, there's still the pro advisor of the year...
Debra Kilsheimer
Once I get that I can quit!
Gary DeHart
Go for gold. Yep. Great. All right. So tell us a little bit about your business, your client base and kind of how you got into this field. Have you always done this?
Debra Kilsheimer
Well, yes and no. My Well, my firm is behind the scenes financials, inc. I worked I've been partners with my husband, he does all the tax, I do all the I do everything else. And I could do tax but I will say if I did tax, he do nothing. So he likes to tax and I'd like the accounting. I grew up and....
Gary DeHart
Doesn't he like to shop?
Debra Kilsheimer
He likes to do eat he? He likes to go out? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, we have our he has the Fearsome Four that he does every day, the post office, the bank, the grocery store, and now the dumpster. Oh, gosh. He goes, he goes to the dumpster behind this shopping center. Because the first box is you won't believe what I find back there. So I come home every day. He has a new stash of crap that he actually puts on eBay and sells it. It's awesome. You know, that's what he does for fun. But swimming, you know, and he goes on a cruise once he's actually on a cruise right now. He goes on when we cruise every month.
Gary DeHart
Oh really good for him.
Debra Kilsheimer
You work hard. Right? That's right. He's the best work life balance of anybody I know.
Gary DeHart
Sounds like it. Yeah. So about your business and client base.
Debra Kilsheimer
So our client base is made mainly you know, small guys. I mean, we don't do big huge, you know, it's just me how who does do any accounting and I have a part timer that works with me. And so we don't do big companies, no big meeting, you know, multi areas we do you know, I always say we'd like to do Larry, the landscape guy, you know, they need us as much as it may be even more than more the big guy. So I do a lot of restaurants. I do a lot of pool service companies. I just picked up a guy that has an airplane that he rents that was that's kind of external. That was interesting. Yeah. So I did tell him I said, you know, Glen, you're going to have to take me up in the plane. And I'm going to do I'm going to do cloud accounting and the love that we think sure...
Gary DeHart
Take me with you and we'll do another episode of Accounting insiders, the truth cloud podcast.
Debra Kilsheimer
He's very interesting and really decent guy, nice guy, you know, and so I get clients like that, you know, local Are you across the country across the country, but most of them are local, most of the time when someone calls that most of my business comes from the pro advisor website. So that's been my major source of that. Advertising. You know, I always ask for reviews. I don't know if they do it or not. Right. So but I do have maybe 77 of them. You know, and I always tell people, if you would help me just just give me a review. I don't know if you do or not. But, you know, it really helps me my business and people are willing to do you favors. Yeah. So they do. And then people will search for a pro advisor, usually, and the adviser search and 25 miles. So I find him for that. And they call me up and I you know, right back, thanks for calling. Let's, here's my phone number, please call me, we can connect many times. It's just, you know, a one time question. You know, and I'll answer it. And then I'll say, Well, you know, you know, I don't like to no one likes to give away their knowledge for free. But I'm willing to like, you know, it's easy for us. And I don't want to go listeners, have you signed an engagement letter to answer on what an invoice is, you know, so I go well, that's that, you know, that really helps. You know, great. Would you do me a favor, because do me a favor, I'm not trying to charge you for this. And which does two things. First off, they know that I charge for things, and that, you know, the next time they call I will charge as if you could do me the favor of putting a pro review on my pro advisor website that would really help me grow my business. You know, so they Oh, yeah, I'll do that for you. No, no, I think most people want to be helpful breakfast definitely been helpful for me, right. Yeah. And what's interesting is, if they don't, I might feel as if they don't do it, they will never call me again. Right? You know, because there'll be embarrassed. Exactly. So I mean, that's, that's been the major source of where we get our clients from, that I get people to talk to see if they want to become a claim. So that's been really good and coercing you know, you put down you can talk to him when they call up it. But that's that that pro visor site to me is invaluable.
Gary DeHart
A lot of people say that they really do get leads through there. Yeah, and a pretty good number of them.
Unknown Speaker
Oh, yeah. A lot of people say, it doesn't work for me. And I'm thinking works for me. I mean, you know, my pictures, their close up picture. It's not my logo. I always think, you know, this is a people business as much as we think it's all about numbers. It's a people business, we build relationships, they, you know, it's I think it's scary to call up someone the first time especially a professional, you know, accountant, I missed, I'm admitting I can't do something, right. So it's scary. They don't know what it's going to cost. They don't know. They feel stupid, because they even have to call so you make it more inviting to them. It's like finding a new boyfriend on the internet. You make it where they want to call. Right. You know, so you know, I have my picture there, which it's a close up...
Debra Kilsheimer
Put your glamour shot on?
But it's, you know, they see my face. Yes. So when they pick up the phone, they can visualize who's at the other end, you know, their face to you know, so I call up and it's always friendly. Always knows, hey, thanks for calling, you know, Oh, wow. You know, put them at ease. So why did you pick up the phone today? And give me a call? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You just agree with them? And they go, Well, let's see if we can get together and I can help you out. I think I can. If not, well, I said the worst thing that can happen is I've made a new friend. And I can't I don't have enough friends. And if you can't help them, you certainly know somebody we know plenty of people in the pro advisor community or through scaling or the Wooder Group that I can refer them to.
Gary DeHart
There's somebody who can do something too late yesterday, or the day before. She's like 100% of what she does is solve payroll problems, like not really running your payroll. It's when your payroll is messed up, right? I'm gonna go right. Probably get a lot of business.
Debra Kilsheimer
Oh, yeah. Because they do it all the time. They think they can run it themselves, and they mess it up.
Gary DeHart
So let's talk about it short business. Clearly, you make decisions. It's your business, you get to decide everything. So what does I know what it means to me? But what does that mean when you say that?
Debra Kilsheimer
Well, I always found it interesting in the accounting community that, you know, this is the only profession I've discovered that the client is dictating how your business is run. Okay? And I thought, that's silly, meaning if I opened a restaurant, and I wanted to sell high end steaks, you know, I would, that's what I would do. So if someone came in and wanted to eat sushi, I wouldn't go up my fish, right. So I thought why as accountants or bookkeepers Are we letting the clients dictate how we run our business? So I thought I'm gonna do on that, like, I started because I was you asked about how long I've been doing it? Well, my mom and my dad was an accountant. My pop up was an accountant. You know, so I kind of grew up with it. My dad didn't play football with me. He showed me how to do tax returns.
Gary DeHart
Oh, there's some good Saturday mornings.
Debra Kilsheimer
Oh, yeah. So come on. Let me let me show you how to do this tax return. Okay, dad. So then I went and got my CPA and thought this is the worst job in the world because nobody likes you. You're really popular. Yeah, I mean, yeah, sourly built the six minute intervals to Bill and, you know, so I was the guy my office, Tony, he was he was he got more accolades than I did. But he was a stupid guy in the office.
Gary DeHart
I'm sorry, Tony.
I well, I said to Ron, my book, I go, why? Why is Tony Stark? He's the dumbest, you know, well, he has more hourly, his client billing per client is higher. Yes, it takes him 10 times as well. I can do more. Yeah, but I can't build as much on you because you'll take as long. Why don't you charge a flat rate? I was 25 years old. But I had this conversation. I'm now older,
And we're still trying to figure out how to charge flat rate.
Debra Kilsheimer
It's amazing to me, but a lot of market. So when I met my husband, you know, he, you know, I said, I put an ad on the internet. And he answered, and I said to him, what do you do? Well, I am I am tax and accounting firm.
Gary DeHart
Oh, oh, gosh, I hate those people.
Debra Kilsheimer
I really don't. Anyway, I met him and he was not. And a month after I met him, I they did away with my department at the law firm, I was working at an amount of a job, okay. Like, what do you what do I do when he goes we are CPA, once you work with me? I said, Well, if I can run an accounting firm, how I'd like to run an account owner, which was no hourly billing, you know, be a proactive accountant, use all the technology available. You know, all of those things. He goes, alright, I'm game with that. Because I like to do tax. I said, alright, you do tax, I'll do everything else. And that was 20 years ago.
Gary DeHart
That's fantastic. And that works?
Debra Kilsheimer
Works for us. You know, and so my the point about the topic of the podcast today, is you need to decide what you're willing to do. Yes. Because you get to decide everything. I think this is the only business where the customer is not right. Yeah, I mean, they come in and say I don't want to pay payroll taxes. Sorry. You know, I have a choice. Yeah. Why don't want to pay sales tax already paid? You know, why would I keep receipts? Well, they can, that's fine. But if you're audited, it's on you.
Gary DeHart
And here it is where I'm getting you to acknowledge that other information.
Debra Kilsheimer
So the customer is not always right in our business. So I thought I get to decide the tech stack the price how I do business, when I do business, who I do business with. So to me, that means that you must first decide your business model. I mean, so often, you know, clients come to us, and they want to start a new business. So I go, what's your business model? And we sit down and say, Okay, you want to sell high end dresses, we got to find a place that people that have that kind of money will shop, we need to go to these manufacturers stock these dresses, blah, blah, blah, you know, so you have a high end dress shop, how many times you've done that with your own business?
Gary DeHart
Nobody? Nobody ever, right? Because, well, I'm working on it. And I can't think about
Debra Kilsheimer
That is the first thing you need to decide. And if you've not done that yet, just take a day and do it. Right. And that might mean you can have to trash all your clients. Not all clients are good clients, right? And, you know, but you get to decide.
Gary DeHart
And then there's a lot of power in that to write it as and we all went into business for a specific reason. Right? That's because love accounting or tax or media have you or fell into it, I really kind of fell into this business. My degree in college was real estate. Go figure. But I do like this business. I love this professional other accounting professional, it's great place to be from media standpoints. But fantastic, because there's always the government's always telling us something right. So if we want to get into that type of information, we certainly can. But so nice, , tight knit community, mostly recession proof, right?
Debra Kilsheimer
Everybody needs an account. They always need a haircut get their hair cut. They need a funeral home and they need an accountant. Yeah, I mean, started taxes didn't take a COVID break, right. IRS may have been paying taxes, didn't they still want their tax bill? Want it? Yeah. So it's a you will always have business.
Gary DeHart
And so a lot of that comes so a lot of the making your own decisions comes with I think you're spot on with the first part is you got to know where you're going, actually. So Gaynor who's in the in the room with us here. She's our CMO. And she's constantly reminding us of well, why are we doing that? Where are we going? What's what's I didn't go right, What's the end goal? So great. So we have that set. Now how to get there, and let's get the roadmap to get there. And, and I think a lot of people don't have a hard time. Like you said, You got to get rid of the clients, they have a hard time of getting rid of clients because well, it's $1,000 month, how am I going to replace that $1,000 A month because I still have payroll or still have mouths to feed or whatever, right? Car payment. How do you get through that as a firm owner?
Debra Kilsheimer
Well, it's tough because it's scary. Taking a jump off the cliff. I will tell you that if you make these decisions, clients don't leave. Unless you want to. Yeah, so now you get them to leave as you raise the price so high, you don't think they'll buy it and then the ones that do yours?
Gary DeHart
Oh we got another 50%.
Debra Kilsheimer
You know, I remember we did a price increase letter and housing. We're gonna lose all our clients on that work with us anymore, right? You know, so we lost one. Well, you And he still talks about a punch, do I? Well, I think we have over 500. I do about 100 bookkeeping clients where I do monthly quarterly. And I said, I'm just not doing it like for that price anymore. I mean, I'm, I was I, when people call up from the pro advisor, you know, they always want to know what you charge, I want to tell you this on the highest one you're going to talk to most of the best, you gotta pick what's important, right? You want cheap, or you want good.
Gary DeHart
You can't have both. Does that work? That's great.
Debra Kilsheimer
Well, because people value what they pay for. And people think that stuff that's more caught more expensive that they spend more for is more valuable. Right? If you don't charge enough, they won't think you're any good. I mean, if you and I were the exact same education, the exact same, you know, accountant level, we did the exact same tasks with the exact same product output, you charge $20 an hour, and I charge $300 In our clients going to sit there and his first thought will be well, Debbie must be really good. Because she charges 300, your output is exactly the same, there is no difference, right? So he might go with you. Because your $20 time you make a mistake should go with that, Debbie, not that I don't make mistakes, right? But he goes, Well, she knows what she's doing. You know? So I would say you know, you have to be I want it to be the most expensive person on the block. So a lot of times I get pushback, even from my husband, and you'll say, well, what's the market? I don't care. I do not care. I set the market. You know, I don't care what other people charge. Why do I want to go to the lowest price leader?
Gary DeHart
What do you sell? Are you putting your price by the hour or you do flat rate? He's like, here's your business is what we do.
Debra Kilsheimer
Yeah, I have a minimum I work for you know, I'm a minimum. I mean, for me to even like, work with you. You have to pay me 650 a month.
Gary DeHart
As a small business to me. I'd much rather know. All right. All right, Debbie, check. This is just part of what it is my cost of doing business. Yeah. And it's gonna get done. Right. I don't have to deal with it. Right. And even if it might turn out less if I'm hourly billing, I still deal with that.
Debra Kilsheimer
If somebody asked me what I charged per hour. You know what I tell them? What million dollars? I get? Because they'll go million dollars? I go yes. Because then you would have to reimburse me for all that blood, sweat and tears I've put in to get this good.
Gary DeHart
Oh, gosh, that's a really, really good point. Right? It's not about it's not about it's not...
Debra Kilsheimer
Not about the time I'm doing now. It's about all you know, they're looking at the iceberg. You know, the tip of the iceberg. But the iceberg is all the knowledge that it took me to get this good. You know, to really so I'm thinking I'm you know, you got to pay pay me for all that. So it's a million dollars an hour or so. But you know, we only work on flat rate. So with a value price that you and I will come up with that we both are excited about.
Gary DeHart
And backup says Be back on your firm are you to obviously do bookkeeping. Are you doing payroll? Payroll, we do it all turnkey? Like I don't ever want to look at accounting. Right? That's your problem, right?
Debra Kilsheimer
Yes, I do all I do everything, you know. And the taxes on the backend taxes are Yes. If you want to know I don't they you don't have to do we don't have to do your taxes. You have a tax preparer you want to work with that's fine. But I we found most people want to have it all under one roof. But I don't I mean, I'm not going to steal you. I'm not going to take anybody's business. There's enough for everyone. Sure. So fact, many times I get a call from prospects. And I know we got this one time. And he said, I don't I can't just charged me $100 an hour to have lunch. And I said, okay, and we only talked business for, you know, 10 minutes, and I got charged $200 For lunch, because she was with me two hours. And I said, Okay, let me first do you like your accountant? I mean, that is not you do a good job for you. Yeah, I think she does a great job for you. Okay. If you and I, if you work with me, and you wanted to meet me for lunch, I would charge you $200 To meet for lunch. If we only talked for 10 minutes you would pay $200 If we talk for five hours you would pay $200 Her problem is she charged you by the hour. So you're looking at that. So I wanted to call her and say you are doing yourself a disservice You almost lost the client because you they he's looking at the time spent not the value he got from what the time you spent together. So it's important you know, stop billing by the hour.
Gary DeHart
And understand what the value is right? Because you provide a lot of value.
Debra Kilsheimer
And value is subjective. Right. You know, so, you know I that's why you know, I was thinking about there's a mall, Valenti around here, it's a high end mall, you know, you know, like Louis batons in there and all these kinds of Michael Kors and all these stores. You know what they put in the back of the shoe store Jimmy Choo. They put the $10,000 shoes in the window. So then you go wow, she's $10,000 You walk in the store, and you pick up a pair go wow, this is only 2000 but that's cheaper too. I better get Number two, everything is relative right? So I don't want to be the low price leader Don't be the low price in town it's a race to the bottom somebody will always do it for less so so I just think yeah, I'm gonna be the high price in town because people pay those prices if you go to the mall millennial people are walking around all day long.
Gary DeHart
Yeah. Yeah, there's nothing wrong and there's no embarrassment was saying, I get paid well for what I do, because...
Debra Kilsheimer
I'm very good at it now and you get you become better all the time. I mean, I didn't you know, I don't know anything. I don't profess to know everything. That's why I come to these conferences to learn more. And I go wow, blew my mind. You know, didn't know that but there's enough of us out there that you know, that you make the best part of this conference in my opinion is the friends you'll meet the colleagues the people I mean, the that's the best part. Because you know, when you when I travel across the country now I just Oh, who lives there? Let me go call them up. Like my my nephew is getting married in Pennsylvania. And Geeta Foust lives in Yardley, right. I saw I saw her and she goes, come stay with me. I said, deal. I mean, who does that? Right. You know, I have a condo in New Smyrna Beach. And I tell everyone, come on down, stay. Come on. So I bought a beachfront. For, you know, so it's really fabulous to have friends all over the country. i That's the best part of this. You know, we're, you know, we sit in the office by ourselves. You know, we're thinking, oh, you know, it's, it's lonely. But when you're in this community of accountants, and you go to the conferences, and you participate in stuff, and and you don't have to be a big participant needs just showing up? Yes. You know, and you see the CI there's other people like me that get us excited about a bank rec as I do.
Gary DeHart
So we've got about two minutes. Okay. What about the thing about a decision tree, if you will, is kind of what I wrote down. So what does that look like for you, your firm? When you guys start looking at are you already kind of upset you're this is? Well, it's not the type of company we'll work with. But it's I guess you do have a bit of a persona of the type of companies you work for. But like if we're here, half of what we're at scaling, new heights, 2022. And the exhibit hall has 110, or whatever exhibitors out there. So what's that decision tree look for you in trying to decide, Okay, do I bring in a new piece of technology, right? Or do I not?
Debra Kilsheimer
That's always a challenge, because they're always coming up with new stuff. So I took a larger bird's eye view of it. My hub is QuickBooks Online. That's the platform I use. Now, we had zero here and accounting suite here, all great products. But I feel you can't chase two rabbits and catch either one. So am I focused on QuickBooks Online? That's what I like. So yes, the OpenGL you have Yes. Because that's the one I know, you know. So then you start to move out. All right, I need firm apps. And I need client facing apps. So what is it I'm trying to accomplish? So you know, there's things like Bill Payment? Well, there are a lot, there were a lot of Bill Payment Options on the floor, you know, so you go around, and you pick one and you pick one that I'm using that there's sales, there are two sales tax people here. If you wanted to have a sales tax automation, you pick one, you know, and then you use it now that the fear always says, Well, what if I pick wrong. What's great about apps is you're not signing a long term contract, let's true, this didn't work, we're going to move on to another one. There are payroll processors, you know, pick, pick a payroll processor, you know, when you call up and you want us as your accountant, we use ADP. So if you want to use your own payroll processor, fine, I just don't support it. Meaning, if there's a payroll problem, you're gonna have to call them yourself, you know, but if you want to have it where you know, we can help you now we will certainly enter the transactions. But I'm not if there's an issue, I'm not calling up to write you're on your own to do so. So we use ADP and I will tell you that clients are not after the the they're after the result. They don't care how you get it and people they want their people paid. They don't care the tool you may want to do it.
Gary DeHart
I want to pay I don't want I don't want to knocking on my door.
Debra Kilsheimer
I don't I want to make sure the taxes are paid, blah, blah, blah. So we we looked at a lot of them and I just happen to pick ADP and the reason I picked them was because one of my colleagues who I really admired used them. And I thought well, she's using...
Gary DeHart
And that's a big part right? But you know, of coming to these conferences,
Debra Kilsheimer
What, what other pro advisors are using these, so any of you vendors out there hook up with pro advisors because they will sell they will. You'll have more impact with your prospective audience with pro advisors and will by just you know, making a sales call and do webinars with the pro advisor to show how it works, you know, because we're using it If we didn't like it, we wouldn't use it. Right? So like, so anyways, depends on it. Right? So you know, there's so then there's client facing apps like liscio is one, that's the client facing app, ease of use that you have to be frictionless, which is what they talk a lot about now. And I love that word for clients working with you don't make it hard, right? You know, so make it easy, I can do hard, I don't want them to. So you know, liscio is the client facing product. You know, on the back end, for my office management, we use mango, there's a lot of them out there. That's the one I use, you know, so, you know, practice ignition for a download called ignition for the proposals, you know, the engagement letters, you know, so that's, that's what we use in house. Now, if I picked wrong, uh, well, we can cancel, I went to the mango thing this morning, and they're coming up with something that indischen down does, I'll begin well, I could just use one, right? That's nice. Or sometimes they'll add something where you can drop something else, you know, we were using ShareFile. Will mango. It has has that. So I say Right. Yep. I don't have to pay for ShareFile anymore. So I'm always looking to see.
Gary DeHart
Yeah, well, like we use right now too many different things, especially for the size of our company. But in Outlook with that, you know, 365 stack, which actually pretty good. Yeah. And then we also use Zoho, Zoho one, which is, like 45 apps, with a very fairly priced I think, and very powerful tool. But we use like, two modules. Yeah. And there's so much more there. And I know, I'm duplicating that spin with Office 365. And I just can't take the time to go. We're gonna bite the bullet, right. Just going to embrace this right. This is what we want to go ahead and make it there.
Debra Kilsheimer
I think I think I was thinking to myself, I said, you know, what I need to do is take one day a week. And that's the person you know, I've been to the conference, I'm going to get phone calls out the wazoo. Yep, that's just part of this. That's how they make their money. So you know, great. So I'm going to say, All right, I scheduled all my demo calls for Friday afternoon. So that way, I'm not trying to fit it in Friday afternoon is when I do my demo calls. So once those end, you know, then I'll say, okay, Friday afternoons, or Fridays are the day that I'm going to really, okay, I'm going to do office 365. I was into a couple classes for that. We'd like to move to that. But it's a big jump. Yes. You know, okay, because it's confusing to me. So, I mean, so I, alright, let me take Friday, or I don't care what you pick. But it's kind of like, let's do lunch. If you don't schedule it, it will not get done.
Gary DeHart
Right. Yeah. So that's definitely my challenge with the zone.
Debra Kilsheimer
And, you know, it's, it's not fun, right? Because it's like, I don't know this. I'm frustrated. Where do I you know, my passwords not working. I don't quite understand what that means. You know, so it gets frustrating. But then I think if I get, I remember when I learned how to knit? You know, I like to knit. Well, when I first started knitting, I was all you know, I didn't know how to knit and I kept saying, just keep doing it. Right, you'll get better. So I liked it enough to keep getting better. And now I'm pretty good. Right? You know, but I thought I'm poor. I remember back in the day. I mean, I couldn't even hold the needles. Right, you know, but I worked through the uncomfortableness so I training, it's a training. I took a couple classes and I thought, Alright, how's the city different? Oh, you know, I mean, how many of you write a two wheel bike? Remember that you wrote a tricycle and then you put training wheels on, you know, when it's like this with a bike. And then the bat dad, my dad took the bicycle wheels off the training wheels up and push me down. And I was juggling. Finally, I just was running smooth, right? But I said, You know what I learned to read write a two wheeler. My biggest thing as always think I can learn something new as I remember when I was in the first grade and toward the second grade. And they have cursive writing on the board. And I looked at it and I thought I will never learn cursive. And I got to the second grade and I could write cursive. And I thought if I can learn personally, I can learn anything. So every time I get frustrated or thing I can't learn that I'm never going to get that. I go wait. I learned cursive.
Gary DeHart
Oh, we're gonna wrap on that. Okay, so that might even be the headline. If I can learn cursive. I can learn anything.
Debra Kilsheimer
I'm showing my age!
Gary DeHart
I mean, what do you see I, I write I don't write in cursive anymore. The other day I was starting to do it just to try really racking my brain to try to remember how it was like, wow, my headaches. So. All right. Well, that's it. Well, thank you, Deborah. Deborah is good. Debbie.
Debra Kilsheimer
There's Deborah be called right You're late for dinner late for dinner okay well Deborah Debbie and they all work yeah
Gary DeHart
Great, thank you for tuning in.